Monday, March 24, 2008

Reclaiming the Mind: Mark Driscoll, Scot McKnight, and Dan Kimball: Emergent Poison Pushed

Reclaiming the Mind’s Converse With A Scholar offers Mark Driscoll (April 24, 2008), Scot McKnight (April 3, 2008 ), and Dan Kimball(March 20,2008) for the sheep to listen to. However, what they offer is nothing but Emergent Church garbage. Take a look here at Lighthouse Research Trails’ March 2007 Newsletter :

Quote:

Some say that some emerging church leaders (like Dan Kimball and Mark Driscoll) are not part of the Emergent movement and that the terms Emergent and emerging church mean two different things. However, according to one of the strongest catalysts for the emerging church movement, Zondervan Publishing, Kimball and Driscoll are indeed part of the "Emergent movement." Zondervan describes its 2007 book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches as: "Five of the emergent movement's most prominent leaders debate their views on Scripture, Christ, atonement, and more." Those five are Dan Kimball, Mark Driscoll, John Burke, Karen Ward and Doug Pagitt. Be that as it may, emergent and emerging are just words, but those who adhere to either of the concepts are going in the same direction, and as we stated in our article, Emerging Church Confusion: What Does it Really Mean?, emergent leaders are feeding the emerging church movement and making it what it is and will become.

Incidentally, in Zondervan's book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches, Robert Webber, the editor of the book, says that "traditionalists have been out of touch with cultural changes, and the contemporaries who have become so thoroughly enmeshed with and catechized by culture are out of touch with the traditions. This reality has created what seems to be an unalterable division between devoted Christians" (p. 213). This is a scary statement, and here is why: In Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus But Not the Church, he makes it clear that "traditionalists" are those who take the Bible literally. Webber says those kind of Christians are out of touch with today's culture (in other words they don't wear hip looking eye glasses or wear slicked back hair or drink beer at the pubs with gays, or cuss in public). That makes them abnormal and oblivious to the world around them according to Kimball. Webber would like to see the two types of Christians (those literalists who believe everything the Bible says and those emergents) come together. He states: "What are we to do? Should we encourage the split? Or is there a new direction for us all? ... What will it take to create an Ancient-Future faith (Webber's name for the emerging church)?" (p. 213) He goes on and tells the solution: "First, an Ancient-Future faith calls us to return to our ancient roots in the first centuries of the church." He explains that these "ancient roots" include "spiritual formation" (contemplative mysticism) and he says that while there have been reforms throughout history (such as the Reformation), we do not need to be divided over them (he includes Catholicism) and says we are "connected to the same family. This ecumenical conviction is central to an Ancient-Future Vision" (p. 214).

In emerging church leader, Scot McKnight's book, The Real Mary: Why Evangelical Christians Can Embrace the Mother of Jesus, McKnight says that Protestant Christians are the only Christians who do not honor Mary. He recommends that Protestant churches all practice an "Honor Mary Day" (p. 144), saying she "leads us to a Jesus who brings redemption ... To listen to Mary is to hear the message of Jesus' death and resurrection as a mega-event whereby God established a new kind of power, a new kind of family, and a new kind of kingdom" (p. 145). McKnight describes this great event as a time when the world will come together and worship Mary.

Today, Christendom has become filled with leaders who have lost their way. If Christian leaders like David Jeremiah and Josh McDowell, who are now promoting emerging leaders, continue in their present direction, they will be responsible for countless lives losing their chances for hearing the true gospel, and these leaders will be helping pave the way for an interspiritual, mystical, apostate religion.
Unquote.

Dan Kimball’s push for ecumenical paganism:

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/dankimball.htm
and
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/stevemuseemerging.pdf

More from Lighthouse: 2008 National Pastors Convention

Quote:

Pastors and church leaders who are planning on attending the 2008 National Pastors Convention, which will be presented by Zondervan Publishing and InterVarsity Press this coming February, should think twice about going. After travel expenses, ticket, lodging and food, the cost for the event for one pastor could easily run over a thousand dollars. In light of the speakers who will be teaching, and other events being offered, this may prove to be an unfruitful way to spend so much money, and may even be spiritually detrimental.

Speakers at this year's event include some of the most blatant proponents of contemplative spirituality and the emerging church, which in many cases also means having a propensity toward Catholic mysticism and interspirituality. Some of these speakers include: Ruth Haley Barton, Tony Jones, Erwin McManus, John Ortberg, J.P. Moreland, Calvin Miller, Scot McKnight, and Dan Kimball. Chuck Colson, co-author of the ecumenical Evangelicals & Catholics Together document will also be speaking. Emerging church favorite Phyllis Tickle (who once called Brian McLaren the next Luther) will be a speaker at the event as well. 1 A number of other speakers also fall into the contemplative/emerging camp.

A number of other speakers also fall into the contemplative/emerging camp. Extra activities offered at the convention, in addition to seminars by the speakers, include "Christian Yoga" presented by Shelly Pagitt (wife of emerging church leader Doug Pagitt), New Age sympathizer Rob Bell's Nooma films, opportunities to be instructed by "spiritual directors" (those who teach contemplative spirituality), and prayer Labyrinths.

Critical concern courses will offer "Practicing the Presence of Jesus: A Spiritual Retreat" by Mark Yaconelli, who once revealed to Lighthouse Trails that he taught mantra meditation in his classes. Popular teachers Henry Cloud and John Townsend (CCN) have found a teaching place at the convention too in a critical concerns course called "Revolutionizing Group Life in the Church." Having these two mainstream speakers will give much credibility to the event in the eyes of many. Dan Kimball will teach a course named after his book They Like Jesus but not the Church (see review).

Unquote.

**UPDATE***

The Submerging Influence, a "community blog" of Reclaiming the Mind, links some of the most liberal "Christian" websites: iMonk (Michael Spence), Jesus Creed (Scot McKnight) and Christianity Today. This is no surprise. In fact it just confirms the lack of love for purity in doctrine and love of Truth, God, and His children. Offering poisoned water doesn't glorify Him.

2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

10 comments:

dweb said...

How much of Mark Driscoll's stuff have you read? Mark is emphatically not "emergent. I haven't read your blog much...but what authors do you appreciate?

Denise said...

Mark Driscoll certainly is ECM. He just hosted an ECM conference last year, after his "distancing" from the ECM.

Check out this: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/newsletter011408.htm See what Emergent junk Driscoll continues to offer. He clearly is part of ECM.

I do appreciate the ministries of John MacArthur, Steve Camp, Paul Washer, Cecil Andrews, Ken Silva, Robert Morey.

Thanks for coming by.

dweb said...

With all do respect your simply uninformed. I am not defending Mark Driscoll in particular, but rather defending anyone or anything that is subjected to very loose theology and very unscrupulous thought like you are promoting. The lighthouse post you cited is frought with bad information and misrepresentations.

How do you handle it when a guy like John Macarthur shares a stage in fellowship and ministry with John Piper? These guys are friends. They have deep love and respect for one another and at the same time hold some radically opposing views, nevertheless neither man doubts the others salvation or feels the need to theologically pistol whip the other. How do you reconcile that type of graciousness with what you are doing???

Dan

Denise said...

dweb,

Your saying I have loose theology? Most think I'm too tight. That's a first, I must say. Why is my theology loose, exactly?

MacArthur doesn't get a free pass from me at all. He ought not to be associating with Piper and I'm quite disappointed with him on that account. Friendship should never trump Truth. Ever.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

Graciousness is often really tolerance for error which isn't of Grace at all. One can be friends but hold the friend accountable for their error. Certainly they should not promote their friend's error nor ignore it. Same with family members. God doesn't ignore error nor sin.

I don't care who's friends with who, if they are wrong, they are wrong. I don't believe in the Rubber Stamp mentality like perhaps you have--why, if MacArthur says the guy's ok, then he MUST be! No way. We're talking about fallible men and we should never treat them like the Magisterium. We are to test each of our favorite pastors, teachers, authors, professors, song writers, etc....and if they fail the Test of Scripture, then we divide from them. If they are on the edge, we watch them carefully. But never do we ride on the opinion of a famous or "educated" man and just truth their judgment. Truth comes by way of Scripture, NOT concensus and certainly not by what a famous man thiniks.

Btw, Lighthouseresearch does excellent research, going to the primary sources. But there's never enough evidence for skeptics like yourself, I understand that.

dweb said...

Denise, Thanks for the response. I don't appreciate the biting remarks very much, but I understand. I pray the Lord will give you wisdom and revelation as you seek His face. The Lord has more in store for you. You clearly have tons of passion and energy for God, I pray that he will break you and shape you that the world may here of His Greatness through your ministry. Blessings

WarAxe said...

Driscoll is no Emergent. Even a simple perusal of his doctrine and theology would testify to that. I can't help but thinking that you get your opinion of Driscoll from anti-Emergent websites (and from the names of events and books) rather than from Driscoll's sermons and speeches. There seems to be a lot of anger on this blog without a lot of reasoning and logic to back it up. Isn't that a type of sin?

elessar-elfstar said...

Driscoll is not Emergent. He used to be, which is he is in the Book you mentioned from Zondervan, but he broke partnership with them when they started moving beyond where he wanted to go.

You really need to make sure you get your time lines correct. By the way, did you even read that book to see what it said?

Denise said...

I wrote about Driscoll back when he made that claim of distancing himself from the ECM in January 2006, but then hosted the ECM's National Pastors Convention, "emergence 2007" at his church on Jun 1-2, 2007, while I was writing for Emergent No. This conference heavily pushed all things emergent, including top ECM leaders on the topic of ECM.

Last year, Driscoll was part of Eponential 08, which is Emergent-friendly at the very least. He shared the pulpit with ECM leaders (Rob Bell, whom he chastized, Andy Stanley, Alan Hircsh, Ed Stetzer, for instance).

How is that distancing himself from the movement, when he continues to share the platform with the leaders?

So his "distancing" from ECM was just empty words.

Besides that, he continues in his emergent ways (cussing, X-rated link on his website, sex-talk at the pulpit, laughing and mocking Christ, a very low view of Scripture,).

I would suggest reading http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/2008/03/vintage-jesus-book-review-by-irish.html which is a review of Driscoll's "Vintage Jesus" which came out last year. His thoughts and comments are not only unbiblical and inappropriate, but he is thoroughly in line with ECM's view of Jesus.

Sean said...

Denise, at the very least, you should read the book for which you have posted a negative review. Driscoll's entry in "Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches" and the other authors' responses to it will be very helpful to you in understanding Driscoll's relationship with Emergeant, his place in the Emerging church, and his extremely conservative doctrine and high view of Scripture. Also, of all places, your source that Driscoll is part of Emergeant is a book summary from Zondervan on the back of the book? You should read more than you blog.

Denise said...

Sean,

I am VERY aware of Driscoll and his place in the ECM. I've been researching the ECM for years and was part of one of the few blogs that dealt specifically with it.

It seems you are not aware of Driscoll's history as a founding member of the ECM back in the 90's and his continued links with it. Guess YOU will have to do your own homework, because you clearly are very ignorant of the whole thing. My knowledge extends far beyond the back of a book. And btw, Zondervan is THE leading ECM sponsor.

On top of all that I have to question your idea of what "conservative doctrine" and "high view of Scripture" are. Clearly Driscoll holds neither of these. Evidence abounds, but seeing that you are too lazy or willing to HEAR the truth, I'll help you out a bit:

http://surphside.blogspot.com/2008/03/mark-driscolls-vintage-jesus-isnt-true.html Go to the links I provide and see for yourself, if you dare.

If by "high view of Scripture" you mean Driscoll's wearing a t-shirt with a picture of "Jesus" on it, thus violating Exod. 20, then sure.

If by "high view of Scripture" you mean Driscoll saying Jesus was a "workaholic who needed to start drinking decaf and listening to taped sounds of running water while doing aromatherapy so he could learn to relax,” then absolutely.

If by "high view of Scripture" you mean R-rated sex sermons or R-rated movies shown in church then you betchya.

Nothing says "holy" and faithful to the PURITY of the Word as cussing, foul-mouthed, dictatorial, sexually explicit language!

And "conservative doctrine" MUST mean women teaching men IN church, just "not as an elder" and being a foul-mouthed, sex-obssessed pastor! Yup, Sean, that just SCREAMS "conservative"!

Seriously, you need to go back to the Bible, and study it and love it and learn it and believe it. What you THINK is a high view of Scripture is actually a VERY LOW view of Scripture .The only way you can call Driscoll as having such a view is that if his view is higher than your's. That means your's is VERY low.