Monday, December 22, 2008

Problems With Rick Warren's Statements In His Beliefnet Interview

While people may agree with what Rick Warren said in his interview on Beliefnet, there's a lot I certainly disagree with. He is slick and unless you listen carefully and know what else he has said, you may be fooled into thinking he's not that dangerous.

The quotes of his are in italics and then I respond.

That if God wanted to…, communicate to ants, he would have become an ant. If he’d wanted to communicate with cows, he would have become a cow. But he wanted to communicate to human beings so he became one of us.

Scripture says: Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ came to do three things. He came to have my past forgiven, you get a purpose for living and a home in Heaven. That’s the big difference between Christianity and other religions. The difference between Works and Grace or Do and Done….That’s the big difference between Christianity and other religions. The difference between Works and Grace or Do and Done.

Note he didn't talk about glorifying and worshipping Christ Jesus for forever (Eph. 1). Its all about Self. He also didn't mention Scripture.

Warren has said:

I happen to know people who are followers of Christ in other religions.” —Rick Warren Aspen Ideas Festival, The Aspen Institute, July 6, 2005, “Discussion: Religion and Leadership,” with David Gergen and Rick Warren

“...You may be Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or Baptist or Muslim or Mormon or Jewish or Jain, or you have no religion at all. I’m not interested in your religious background. Because God did not create the universe for us to have religion. He came for us to have a relationship with him.” —Rick Warren United Nations, Interfaith Prayer Breakfast, September 2005

Rick Warren said on Hannity’s show this year, on how to get to heaven: “Give as much of yourself as you understand to as much as you understand about me and then keep growing in it.”

To the question (the question itself reveals a wrong view of unbelief as if its merely a mistake, but I digress): So why wouldn’t he if we get to the gates of heaven and say “I didn’t believe in you. Boy do I have egg on my face,” as it were. “It was a horrible mistake.” Why wouldn’t he forgive that too?

I think that it’s not just a matter of knowledge. I think God’s gonna take care of a matter of… I don’t know about people who don’t know. I really don’t know. I know that the Bible says that Jesus is the way to heaven. I do, I do know that.

To not believe in Jesus Christ means no entry to heaven. To not know means no belief. Its simple. God has indeed revealed Himself to all people and no one is without excuse to worship Him.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

But again, he is like Graham and Schuller: “I happen to know people who are followers of Christ in other religions.” —Rick Warren

Warren goes on to say:

And we believe that when God speaks to us that’s called inspiration. When Satan speaks to us that’s called temptation. And when I’m talking to myself and I think it’s God, that’s delusion.

Inspiration is not God talking to us. Inspiration is God speaking. Its not about us.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Mat 4:4 But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

Men are not inspired. HIS Words are inspired. There’s a difference. As John MacArthur points out:

"And just as a footnote, the Bible does not say that the writers were inspired. Paul does not say that. Peter does not say that. What is inspired is the Scripture. The men themselves were not inspired in the sense that they had some supernatural ability which they could use at any point to produce Scripture. The only time they were ever inspired was when God gave them His Word. The rest of the time they spoke independent of any inspiration. And so the Bible knows nothing technically of inspired men, only of inspired words, of God-breathed words."

Warren's source of temptation is also a problem. Scripture about temptation :

Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

I do accept the Bible as a standard of authority and I judge my experience by it not vice versa.

So Scripture is merely “a” standard of authority for Warren. Its certainly not THE standard for him. That's why he can say there are people in other religions that are saved. God says HIS Word is THE Standard:

Is. 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Warren goes on....

But going back to this thing about heaven and getting into a perfect place. Let’s say we got a scale of 1 to 100. Let’s put Hitler at zero and Mother Teresa at 100 OK. And Steve you’re at 85 and Larry’s at 65 and I’m at 45. The truth is, some people are better than others, there’s no doubt about it. Some people are more moral than others, they’re nicer, they’re less selfish, less self-centered, things like that. But the truth is, nobody makes [it] to perfection… And so somebody’s got to make up that difference. And that’s the gift I believe Jesus came to – to make up the difference between my zero and my 100 or my 45 and 100 -- somebody’s got to make up that difference.

No one makes up the difference. This smacks entirely of humanism. This assumes there’s some good in people, and what, Jesus makes up for our lack? He’s actually using man as the standard….if someone is 10% good, Jesus adds 90%? Nope. Jesus did NOT come to add to our goodness. This is a denial of the doctrine of Justification which necessitates our total sinfulness.

Scripture says:

Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

I think my first question[to God when he gets to heaven] would be the question of suffering. I think it’s the unanswerable question. I know why there’s evil in the world. I don’t understand why so much suffering happens to so many innocent people.

For the believer, I think our question will be, “Why did you save me, a wretched sinner?” because we will see His perfect holiness. The question of suffering is really a veiled accusation against God. It demeans His justice and it denies Man’s worthiness of suffering. There is no such thing as innocent people. As Romans 3 and Eph. 2 says, we are ALL born as enemies of God. For the true believer in Christ Jesus Christ, Scripture warns:

1Pe 4:13 But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.

For the believer, suffering is GOOD because it causes us to rely more upon the Lord (see also 2Cor. 1):

Jas 1:2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Also, suffering is a result of the sin that entered Creation. The poor we will always have with us, Jesus said. Injustice occurs because of sin. All kinds of suffering (and let’s be clear, “suffering” is not doing without a larger house or better job, or being fired from a job because we were not good workers, or being rebuked for sin) happen because man is sinful and also because sometimes people make bad decisions.

We know that evil exists because God gives us a free choice. In order for love to be love, it has to be volitional, it has to be voluntary. I can’t say “I love you” unless I have a choice to not love you. He could have made us all puppets. We would have been marionettes. He could have put us on strings and we’d pray five times a day and we’d have no choice.

Since when is love defined by free will? We are born hating God (Rom. 3:10-18), then Scripture goes on to say:

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ… 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

God defines love by what HE did, not that we loved Him. Scripture, as already shown, tells us we were hating God, disobedient to Him, refusing to worship Him. Love is defined by who HE is and what HE did.

Because of our total depravity we cannot love God until we have first been justified and saved, and THEN HE pours HIS love into our hearts, so that we can then love Him.

As for “marionettes” Scripture says:

Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Without God working in my will and then helping me do it, I will not do His good pleasure. This is about the believer—how much more the unbeliever needs HIM!

The greatest gift God gave us is also our greatest curse, which is the free will. We are made in God’s image, the Bible says, which means we have the ability to love him or not love him, to reject him or not reject him.

God’s “greated gift” is a curse? Where is that in Scripture? The Bible states that ALL God does is good. HIS gifts are all good:

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Mat 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

1Ti 4:4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

Rick’s view of God’s “greatest gift” which is also accursed apparently, is very man-centered. Scripture says we do NOT have the ability to love God or not reject Him. Instead it says we are born hating HIM:

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

There is no such thing as being neutral toward God and sin, ever, for any person.

In addition, Rick says we are made in the image of God therefore we can choose to not love Him---how is the choice to sin "being made in the image of God"? God has no choice to sin. Heb 6:18 "so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie...." 1Jn 1:5 "This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." Warren doesn't make sense. But his statements sure reveals his strange view of God.

No body works correctly – we all have problems with our bodies. The weather doesn’t work correctly – tornados and hurricanes and stuff like that. It’s the result of living on a broken planet. That’s why we’re to pray “Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven” ‘cause in heaven it’s done perfectly.

God’s will is not done most of the time on earth. When people go, “oh, that hurricane must have been God’s will” – baloney! That wasn’t God’s will. God’s will is not done most of the time. If I go out and get drunk and run over a pregnant mother and kill her and her baby, that’s not God’s will, that’s my will.

Well then the baby, according to Warren, goes to heaven. How is that bad? His theology makes no sense.

Contrary to Rick’s god, the true God of Scripture takes credit for the weather, as it is His tool to do His bidding:

Exo 9:18 Behold, about this time tomorrow I will cause very heavy hail to fall, such as never has been in Egypt from the day it was founded until now.

Job 38:22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, 23 which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war?

Psa 78:47 He destroyed their vines with hail and their sycamores with frost.

Psa 105:32 He gave them hail for rain, and fiery lightning bolts through their land.

Psa 148:7 Praise the LORD from the earth, you great sea creatures and all deeps, 8 fire and hail, snow and mist, stormy wind fulfilling his word!

Because God is Sovereign and Creator, He does as He wishes with the weather. The Flood is a good example of this, as is the drought of three years during Isaiah’s time. God’s is actively bringing about His plan---His plan revealed is called prophecy. It seems that Rick has issues with this.

God is truly in control of His whole creation:

Ps. 33: 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him. 9 For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm. 10 The LORD foils the plans of the nations; He thwarts the purposes of the peoples. 11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations.

Dan 2:20 Daniel answered and said: "Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. Dan. 2 21 He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

Warren also said:

And I think that one day, everyone of us is gonna stand before God and he’s not gonna say, “What religion were you? Were you Jewish? Were you Christian? Were you Buddhist? Baptist?” I don’t think he’s gonna say, “What church did you go to?” I think he’s gonna say first thing, first, “What did you do with my son who I sent to earth? Did you ever really get to know him? Did you even check him out? Did you trial test faith in him?” You know, “What did you do?” It’s about a relationship not a religion.

Remember, Rick has already stated:

I happen to know people who are followers of Christ in other religions.” —Rick Warren Aspen Ideas Festival, The Aspen Institute, July 6, 2005, “Discussion: Religion and Leadership,” with David Gergen and Rick Warren

“...You may be Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or Baptist or Muslim or Mormon or Jewish or Jain, or you have no religion at all. I’m not interested in your religious background. Because God did not create the universe for us to have religion. He came for us to have a relationship with him.” —Rick Warren United Nations, Interfaith Prayer Breakfast, September 2005

Also, Rick signed the unity letter to the Muslims, declaring that Christians and Muslims worship the true God.

On page 34 of his PDL book, Warren says, “God won’t ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is, did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?”

Which Jesus? Which God? Accept what, exactly, about Jesus? If God asks people if they "checked out Jesus" and they rejected Him (this assumes people are neutral, and not born haters of God, HIS enemy), will God then be obligated to welcome them into heaven? After all, they could answer yes (Rick has challenged people to give "Jesus a 60 day try").

And the second question is gonna be the question of, “What did you do with what I gave you? The talent, the ability, the resources, the network, the opportunities, the health, the freedom?” And we are going to be evaluated and judged NOT on our relationship to other people, in terms of, ‘well he did better and he did worse,’ but what did you do with what you were given. So, a retarded person, who does not have mental capabilities will be judged on a totally different scale. In fact the Bible says that people who don’t even have the ability to acknowledge God or to accept Christ, that they’re safe. They are safe. That’s why I believe babies automatically go to Heaven. Every baby does go to Heaven.

He gave no Scripture for this either. There is NONE. He's lying.

Scripture tells of only one way to be justified and to be saved: by faith in Christ Jesus alone. See Rom. 4 & 10:9-10.

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

He doesn’t believe that all men are born sinners, hating God (Eph. 2; Romans 3,5).

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

His view would also seem to diminish the seriousness of abortion against babies; certainly if all babies go to heaven when they die, then abortion is a good thing. After all, when they grow (whatever his magical age number is, where they suddenly go from guaranteed heaven to hell), then most of them will go to hell (the broad road to damnation is wide and many are on it).

Rick Warren is a theological mess. Moreover he’s a snake, because saying a lot of things that sound ok, he’s pulled the wool over many eyes. I suggest reading a few articles: John MacArthur on PDL’s lack of the biblical Gospel and assurance of salvation based on error.
Side by side comparison of what Warren says versus what Scripture says, throughout the PDL book: various articles and comments on PDL

Rick Warren's Liberalism Is No Surprise

I'm wondering why professing Christians continue to be astounded with Rick Warren and the things he does. The man is not a Christian; in fact he doesn't even know the Gospel. All he knows is self-centeredness and great marketing.

Why would anyone be angry with Ricky holding hands with the Sodomites and Muslims? Unbelievers share common ground.

Just remember that.

Saturday, December 20, 2008

Focus On the Family Promotes Mormonism

Well its happened. And we saw it coming. Focus on the Family is promoting a Mormon and his religion (thanks to Slice of Laodicea for the heads up and the link) on their webpage "Citizen Link".

Citizen Link's interview excerpts:

But these days, Beck is hoping to spread a more eternal sort of gospel through his new book, The Christmas Sweater.

Beck spent several years addicted to drugs and alcohol, coming to the verge of suicide, before turning his life over to God at the age of 35. Now he has a message for readers and viewers about facing life’s storms, and finding hope and redemption on the other side.

Q: What message do you hope people take away from The Christmas Sweater?
A: I think the message that you can’t really escape is (that) the Christmas sweater is the metaphor for me of the atonement for Christ. We’ve all been given a gift. We celebrate the birth of the baby Jesus — but the real point is the death, and why He died. When I was in my 30s, I was suicidal. I had nowhere else to run. Then I realized that the real gift — the one we really need to appreciate — is the one that took so much to give. In my mother’s case, it’s the sweater. But in all our cases, it’s redemption and atonement.

Sounds ok so far. Except that they deny Jesus is the sinless, uncreated God the Son, the Second Person in the Trinity. Instead, they believe Jesus is a created being, the older brother of Lucifer (Satan).

Apologetics Index has a lot of information on the lies of Mormonism. For instance in a chart that compares the Mormon Jesus to the Biblical Jesus, the Mormon Jesus was"Conceived by a physical sex act between God the Father (Adam or Elohim) and Mary, thus not through a true virgin birth; Once sinful and imperfect; Earned his own salvation (exaltation, godhood)".

Of course the REAL Jesus Christ is eternally God the Son and is Creator of ALL things (John 1:1-4,14; Col. 1; Heb. 1:1-8), was sinless (Hebrews 4:15; 2Cor. 5:21). Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus (Matt. 1:23; Luke 1:27; Is. 7:14).

Mormonism is a polytheistic (multi-gods) religion (evern Mormon man works up to godhood and gets his own planet and populates that world with his wife). Their "salvation" is by works, not by grace alone in Christ Jesus alone. They have added to the Bible with their Book of Mormon, authored by Joseph Smith (who was deep into occultism and polygamy).

Mormons believe that their church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (D&C 1:30), the only organization authorized by the Almighty to preach his gospel and administer the ordinances of salvation, the only Church which has power to save" (Mormon Doctrine; 1977 ed, p. 136).

Chart comparing the god of Mormonism to the God of Scripture is here.

Ask yourselves why Focus promotes the damning gospel of Mormonism instead of Christ Jesus. Why does it focus on the family instead of Christ Jesus?

They seem to be merely interested in the things of this world, not spiritual Truth that actually transforms lives. In doing so, they are promoting blasphemy and lies. They aren't a Christian organization. They are now interfaith. Gal. 1:7-9 says if anyone brings to you a gospel other than the one given to us by God, let him be accursed.

Focus On I Don't Know What Kind Of Family is earning the wrath of God.

Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."....58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; AVOID THEM.

Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

This passage speaks to Focus and their reporter as well as editor of Citizen Link:

Gal. 1: 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! 10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

More on Mormonism and why they will never be part of the Body of Christ and this move to interfaith junk.

Shame on Focus On I Don't Know What Kind Of Family. They have taken the Broad Road, slapped "Christ" onto it, and embrace those on it. What hatred for the soul of millions! What hatred for Truth. What hatred for clear Scripture.

1Cor. 13: 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

2Thes. 2: 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Thursday, December 18, 2008

Rick Warren's "Sleight of Tongue"

Slice has an article on Rick Warren's Hegelian dialectic method, which is part and parcel to Marxism. In essence, its the idea that through opposing views, there emerges unity:

As Ingrid notes, "It’s called the Law of the Unity and Struggle of Opposites. I quote: Between the opposites in a contradiction there is at once unity and struggle, and it is this that impels things to move and change.” –Chairman Mao Tse -tung "

So while Ricky Warren claims to be pro-life and such, he's holding hands with those who are actively against pro-life; ie, giving a prayer at Obama's inaugaration (however, he is not against homosexual rights).

I bring this up because this is what I noticed Cedarville University doing. They distance themselves from "liberal theology, the social gospel" yet they bring in liberal Emergents.

There's another word for all this: hypocrisy.

I was chastised by a pastor and seminary graduate for calling Rick Warren a false teacher and motivated by money; they said their only disagreement was with his methodology. While the seminary graduate, who just got a job up North, has seen some serious problems now with Warren, he never did come back to me to apologize. And the pastor? Haven't heard a peep.

Ingrid hits it on the head when she says:

For years, he has been exposed for promoting exactly that—helping people externally minus the exclusive Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet here we have the man who has done more to further the social gospel than any other, actually decrying the “social gospel.” Why does he do this? It’s the sleight of tongue that causes his followers to relax, to believe that after all, “Rick Warren would not mislead us! Look! He sees the social gospel for what it is! We’re all against Marxism, right? Warren is different. His message is not the social gospel! He even said so in the media!”

Warren is nothing but a huckster, a wolf in sheep's clothing. He mimics Christianese, yet holds to a false gospel, promotes himself (yes, that's his newest book he's holding, reading out of), his works, and his church's works (every time...EVERY TIME the man is interviewed, he boasts about this). He hates the sovereignty of God ("hurricanes aren't God's will ... HIS will is not done most of the time on earth"). He is nothing but a prideful, coniving man, and God will deal with him harshly for mudding HIS name and HIS Word.

**The interview transcript can be read here ***
**The full video interview here **
**Caution** Beliefnet is an inter-faith, anti-biblical website, promoting itself as "Christian"

Saturday, December 13, 2008

The Downgrade of Cedarville for the powerful video of the downgrade of Cedarville in recent years. This is happening across our country people....the departing from Truth within "solid" and "evangelical" "Christianity". Its worth watching with your FULL attention. I'm seeing this same thing happening within churches. It deals with HOW it begins---doubting God's Word, and being open to philosophies like Post Modernism and shutting the doors on the noses of those who keep to Scripture and HIS Truth above all things. the author, Professor Raymond Bartholmew.

This is happening in churches, not just colleges.

After viewing the video go here for the downgrade of academia in Spurgeon's day.

Cedarville University Not So Conservative Or Christian

I got a heads up from Slice and checked it out. They're right: Cedarville, which many claim to be a conservative Christian school, is HOSTING (in partnership with other charities) the U2 conference. Actually its supposed to be a U2 "academic" conference. Its really a conference of scoffers and doubters who wannabe cool and emergent.

Go on with their bad POMO selves. What a waste of time and money.

But I'm sure there are those who will still claim Cedarville is conservative, just like the "conservative Christians" who voted for pro-abortion/pro-homosexual rights candidates.

So again I'll ask: what makes them conservative or Christian? Because they wave the Jesus flag around?

Wednesday, December 10, 2008

"Illuminated Bible" Is Not Scripture: Its The Bible The Way Religious Scoffers Like It

Ps. 1:2… You have exalted above all things Your name and Your word.

Pro 30:6 Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Last night I stopped by Barnes & Noble. As I scoured the store I came across "Illuminated Bible". I saw "New Testament" on the cover, under a photo of an eye (man? woman?) with heavy, smudgy, black eyeliner. I picked it up and stood there in disgust. This is a Bible??? The cover alone is worldly and unholy. The OT picture in the back is just as trashy with a man and a woman, mouths open, ready to kiss. Go here for the side by side pictures.

Flipping through the pages in disbelief, I actually took notes. Set up as a magazine, but selling itself as a Bible, this thing has photos of various images, some from the news (a man on fire; Jackie Kennedy) and quotes (like from the great theologian, Andy Warhol).

In Hebrews, it has a picture of Jackie Kennedy watching Johnson being sworn into office on the airplane after her husband's assasination with the comment "when there is a change in priestood..." This is supposed to "relate" the world to the change in priestood of Jesus.

For James 1:1 this magazine says we're to "consider yourselves FORTUNATE" when you have trials. (Good News Translation)

Fortunate??? Fortunes? Chance? Their gods MUST be crazy. There's no such thing in Scripture as "fortunate". Talk about obliterating Scripture! This is supposed to be an accurate rendering of Scripture. But the Greek says we're to count it with all "JOY", that is, with cheerfulness found ini Christ Jesus, when we encounter many trials. Joy does not mean fortunate. Scripture says GOD brings about all things in our lives for our good and His glory (Rom. 8:28). HE predestined these things to conform us to the image of Christ Jesus (Romans 8:30).

Here's what the site says about its product and motives:

Illuminated World: Illuminated Bible:

"One of the world’s most revered scriptures mediated through world leading photography. Not a new Bible edition, nor just another photo book, Bible Illuminated is a fusion of words and images at their most potent. It will bring “the greatest story ever told” out from the dusty bookshelves and onto the coffee tables and into the class rooms, to be browsed, gaped at, pondered over and hopefully enriched and inspired by."

"All in all the photography of Bible Illuminated has shed new light on biblical themes, using strong imagery to make them available and relevant to people today, regardless of their faith or lifestyle. Bible Illuminated – The Old Testament has first been published in Swedish with a great success during the beginning of 2007 and Bible Illuminated – The New Testament will be available to the Swedish market in Christmas 2007. Bible illuminated will also be published worldwide in English and other languages. The project is financed and managed by a Swedish consortium, chaired by Jan Carlzon, former CEO of Scandinavian Airlines and author of global management bestseller; The Moments of Truth (1987)."

Video is here.


"This modern illuminated bible is an oversized (8 ¼ x 11 ½), full-color, 264-page glossy magazine. It has striking, provocative, contemporary photographs. It uses the Good News Translation (GNT) and it is aimed to be less intimidating than traditional bibles. The US book is available now."

How it all began :

"The concept originated with a general philosophical dinner table discussion between Michel Gyring and Mats Rabe in Stockholm, Sweden. The conversation, which led to several other discussions with key individuals, asked the question “Why people don’t read historical texts” and they began pondering if the traditional format or design turned people off. They realized there was a huge opportunity to re-design or illuminate these types of old texts. This was the beginning of Illuminated World (formerly Förlaget Illuminated Sweden, AB.)"

Their Agenda:

"Illuminated World seeks to introduce today’s audience to a revolutionary contemporary Bible, one that encourages dialogue and is culturally relevant, accessible and easily digestible for any reader regardless of religious, economic, racial or social background.

"We have no religious agenda nor do we support a specific faith. Bible Illuminated is intended to be a unique vehicle for reacquainting today’s reader with one of the most important historical, and cultural texts ever written."

The American contributor to this garbage:

"Larry Norton is a key partner in the effort to realize Illuminated World's vision in the United States. Larry brings over twenty-five years of book publishing experience to the team, most recently as President of the Sales and Distribution Division of Simon & Schuster, Inc. His role with Illuminated world is to coordinate all publishing, sales, distribution and marketing activities in the U.S. Larry also acts as a spokesperson on behalf of the company. Larry's interest in the importance of the bible to today's culture and history dates back to his college years where he enrolled at Dartmouth College as a comparative religion major, eventually graduating cum laude with a degree in philosophy."

They treat Scripture as a mere historical text, not the God-breathed, infallible Bible that it is. And all this work they put into it and still come out as pagan as when they sat around the dinner table in a mere philosophical discussion show what a waste this whole thing truly is. Then again, I've seen "Christians" who fancy themselves theologians/debaters/scholars do the same thing. They all have a very low view of Scripture and quite a high view of man.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

2Co 2:17 For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from His sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Monday, December 08, 2008

Twilight Seduction of Christians: love of reading trumps love of Scripture Truth

Excerpts from: * The "Twilight" Phenomena by Caryl Matrisciana and Paul Villanueva. December 2008 (bold, my emphasis)


Twilight takes occult darkness, introduced in Potter, to deeper, decadent fathoms: overt vampirism, acceptable blood-sucking (in this movie its only animal blood – later? Wait and see!) and sexual lust for the possessed soul (made appealing in its fictionalized form!). The books, akin to the Potter’s series, promote and familiarize their audience with magick, Wicca, supernatural powers and demon possession.

But what is beyond alarming is that Christians are seduced by satanic deception and have succumbed to Twilight's fascination of dark wisdom, a power Scripture warns against - loving evil more than good (Psalm 52:3), and placing what the world admires before what God requires.

Focus on the Family, Christianity Today, The Catholic News Service, Christian Stay at Home Moms and Christian Teen Magazine are among some of the Christian groups who’ve been misled by occult delusion, and instead of warning Christians of its dangers, have compromised its lying message. "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness.... Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:20-21

Simultaneously, in 2006 a teenage phenomenon began gaining incredible momentum – a demonically inspired series of vampire romance, which surprisingly has hoodwinked Christian youth who are confusing God’s love with sensual, romantic lust and His Word with occult philosophy. As Twilight lulls the spiritually asleep into a darker 2009, the church needs to wake up to the supernatural dangers these compromises pose.

About the author and the instigation of what drove her to write the book

A housewife named Stephenie Meyer “received” the story of Twilight in a dream on June 2, 2003. The vision she had of a vampire and mortal as lovers compelled her to start writing the story immediately. She says she couldn’t resist the drive to write down her dream (a similar scenario to J.K Rowlings, author of Harry Potter). Meyer gives a summary of that first dream: “I woke up (on that June 2nd) from a very vivid dream. In my dream, two people were having an intense conversation in a meadow in the woods. One of these people was just your average girl. The other person was fantastically beautiful, sparkly, and a vampire. They were discussing the difficulties inherent in the facts that A) they were falling in love with each other while B) the vampire was particularly attracted to the scent of her blood, and was having a difficult time restraining himself from killing her immediately.” Within three months, she had the entire novel written. Within six-months, it had been dreamed, written, and readied for publishing.

Meyer, a Mormon mother of three, states that some of her inspiration in writing her vampire saga came from a band of musicians called Marjorie Fair. “For New Moon, they were absolutely essential. They can put you into a suicidal state faster than anything I know . . . Their songs really made it beautiful for me.” Also an inspiration for one of her characters was a band called My Chemical Romance. She states, “It’s someone . . . who just wants to go out and blow things up.” See mind blowing information about the music industry and a shocking spirituality many are involved in.

Scaringly, Meyer's fictional character Edward took on the "terrifying" form of "real" spirit when it leapt from the pages of her saga and communicated with her in a dream. She says she had an additional dream after Twilight was finished when her vampire character Edward came to visit and speak to her. The Edward who visited her in the night told her she'd got it all wrong because he DID drink human blood, and could not "live" on ONLY animal blood as she wrote in the story. She said, “We had this conversation and he was terrifying.”

Conversation with spirits (saying they need human blood to suck!) and frightening dream visitations by spirits are part of occult communication. Meyer’s spiritual experiences could well be influenced by her Mormon faith which allows for communication with the so-called "the dead"; indeed "the dead" of former generations are baptized into Mormonism in Mormon Temple ritual. Mormon founder Joseph Smith was "visited" by a communicating "angel" called Moroni, whose statue stands atop all Mormon Temples. This fallen angel of Mormonism gave Smith messages on which he formed his Mormon doctrine about prior civilizations, none of which have been discovered despite endless archeological digs to substantiate Mormons claims. Others Mormon teachings conflict with biblical Christianity such as Mormonism's claim that Jesus (Yeshua) of the Bible is the half-brother of Satan. Mormons additionally believe numerous teachings about the spirits that oppose Bible truths and could help embellish Meyer's Twilight series.

Focus on the Family's reviewer continues with a lack of spiritual discernment writing, “So within the context of a monster mash such as this, we can see a reflection of the Christian calling to put away the old man of sin and embrace the new one.” (Comparing the vampire’s struggle to hold back his desire to devour his young lover and drink her blood to the transformational power of the Lord Jesus Christ!)Focus's reviewer admits, “Edward considers himself and all other vampires to be eternally damned, and he resists mightily the idea of allowing Bella to descend into the abyss that he finds himself submerged in. She doesn't care a whit about that. She's eager to become a ‘cold one’ if only it means she will be with her beau forever.” Yet Focus recommends this “positive” movie to the “Christian” youth despite its blatant occultism, “Edward can read minds. His sister, Alice, sees visions of the future.” ….and the only “negative” admission from Focus is that the characters Edward and Bella “lie” to protect the vampire’s identity.

Biblical Christianity is under attack as is God’s Word, beginning with the wiles of Satan in the Garden who engaged Eve in “dialogue” about God’s truths. She was tempted to understand the unknowable God through her own limited reasoning. Dialectic conversing is designed to bring about collective consensus and is Satan's agenda. God encourages the study of His Word so that we may be approved workmen "rightly dividing the word of truth". (2 Tim 2:14-15) Youth must come to the things, “which are proper for sound doctrine” (Titus 2:1) for the sake of their eternal souls.

End quote.

It gets worse as more “Christian” reviewers are cited showing their utter lack of biblical wisdom or discernment and having a morbid fascination for wickedness thinking there’s light in it.
“…no lie is of the Truth” Scripture says.

Folks, please keep your kids from this demonically inspired garbage. It does NOT matter if its a book that would inspire your child to read. I'd much rather had a child innocent as to the demonic occult realm and not be taken with reading, than to read through all four books as if a love for reading (occult and lust) trumps a love for God and HIS Word!

**Note*** I do not know much about the website that this critique came from, so as always please be cautious.

****UPDATE**** Here's a good website with some info on Twighlight's problems.

Friday, December 05, 2008

Rick Warren Memorizes Lines From Him Book But Can't Quote One Verse of Scripture In Context

This is errie----this morning as I had my second cup of coffee I read the transcript from Hannity and Colmes' show with guest Rick Warren. Here's what I emailed to a few friends (italics are my thoughts and emphasis in bold are mine):

Warren on Hannity and Colmes 12-4-08:

WARREN: You know, it's kind of like with Thanksgiving, on Thanksgiving we do just everything except give thanks. We eat, we watch football, we have a good time with family. Almost nobody gives thanks to God at Thanksgiving, unless there's a short prayer before we eat.

Well most if not everyone I know, even pagans, stop to say what they are thankful for. At school they kids made a "Gratitude Bag" several years ago. He's just crazy. And uh, he needs to eat less, talk less, and read the Bible more.

Warren: God has given us a gift in Jesus Christ. And people don't understand: it's for our benefit. One of the things that says, "For unto you is born this day a savior." They say, "Well, I don't need a savior." Believe me: if you didn't need one, God wouldn't have sent it. [Jesus is an it?] Because — because he wouldn't have wasted the time [but apparently He did waste time on the cross, dying for those He never intended on much for "purpose"]. And Jesus meets every one of our deepest needs. And what we need to do is accept his gift of a pastor-given (ph), purposeful living home in heaven.[And by the way, buy my book Purpose Driven Life to find out this need it and I need your money]
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Pastor, did you just say "peed off"?
WARREN: "Peed off?" No, I didn't. I might have.

Uh, he doesn't KNOW what he just blabbed?

WARREN: The thing is, Alan, I believe Jesus Christ came for everybody [a failed "purpose" because clearly people go to Hell, so the death of Jesus didn't cover "everyone's" sin]. I don't think he came for Christians. The Bible says take this good news to the whole world.

I don't care whether you're Baptist, Buddhist, Mormon, Methodist, Jewish, Muslim, or no religion at all. Jesus Christ still loves you. You still matter to God.

Jesus came not just for Christians? Jesus loves everyone and we all matter to I'm starting to feel my purpose....Not even. Jesus came only to save His people from their sin; He died for HIS church; HIS sheep; HIS bride. God clearly states He hates the wicked (Ps. 5:5-6; 11:5-6)

COLMES: True, and I think that's a wonderful message. But if you don't accept Jesus, if you're not something who goes that route religiously...
COLMES: ... can you find your way to heaven? Can you still be — go to the same place when it's all said and done?
WARREN: I'm not the authority on that, but I believe Jesus is. And everybody's betting their life on something. Jesus said, "I am the way." I'm betting that he's not a liar. I'm betting that he told the truth.
COLMES: What about — what does it say for all those people who do not accept Christ as their personal savior?
WARREN: I'm saying that this is the perfect time to open their life, to give it a chance. I'd say give him a 60-day trial.

HE PULLED A JOEL OSTEEN! Rotflol! No hell, no wrath, nothing. What an inept moron...Jesus is the what exactly? To find purpose? Notice he left out the rest of the verse: the Truth and the Life and NO ONE goes to the Father but by HIM. "Betting Jesus told the truth"....HELLO? He IS Truth. How dare he make Jesus a test-drive errand boy! Perhaps that's why earlier on in the discussion he referred to Jesus as an "it". Had he been a Christian he would've used the time to proclaim Christ Jesus and the Gospel with clarity and boldness but all Warren does is cower and slither away from the truth, helping those in the lie to stay there.

Here's what I just read at Slice:


Rick Warren and his false gospel got a national audience on the Today Show again this morning. Here is how one reader put it after watching the interview with Matt Lauer. (Bold Emphasis mine.)

God sent Jesus to solve all our problems
Most people don’t accept the gift”
“Jesus Christ came for your greatest benefit

“He sent Himself to earth so that we could know what he is like”
Depression: “people need to turn to God”

Notice, when Matt Lauer says, ‘Happy Holidays”, Rick does not correct this, nor does he say Merry Christmas!

No message of repentant faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. None. THAT is the reason for Christmas. God’s gift of salvation through repentant faith in Him!

He uses everything but the BIblical truth of Jesus’ coming to save the sinner from hell. He refuses to mention sin, the message of the cross, repentance etc. No scripture.
Notice how he uses “seeker-sensitive” words to appeal to the culture.

End quote.

Rick Warren has talking points he's memorized which I bet (ha!) is from his little book, in order to sell his his little book that no one needs. Apparently he doesn't wander off script and repeats himself. Its almost like a mantra, and if he says it enough SOMEONE will believe him.

At least some Christians are noticing what he's NOT saying, as much as what he does; both make the man a raving heretic. Gal. 1:7-9.

"Christian" Book Expo Admit In It For The Money: Its Not Even Close To A Ministry Or Love of Biblical Truth

From the Christian Post:

Over 150 authors are confirmed to attend a first-of-its-kind event for the Christian publishing industry that will be held next year in Dallas.

Authors including Henry Blackaby, Ruth Graham, Max Lucado, and Lee Strobel will be among the thousands expected to attend the inaugural Christian Book Expo, sponsored by the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association (ECPA) and slated for Mar. 19-22, 2009.

ECPA created the Christian Book Expo to directly connect with their core market – anybody making or influencing book buying decisions. Though Christian products will be sold to consumers at the Christian Book Expo, Kuyper says event sales are not the goal of Christian Book Expo Dallas 2009.

We are trying to build future retail sales,” he reported. “Our goal is for awareness and exposure."

“Reaching the consumer is essential to the future of Christian publishing,” Kuyper continued. “Our goal with the Christian Book Expo is to connect the top authors from across the country with core customers from the region. We are dedicated to reaching the largest audience possible with the life-changing message in books, Bibles and other Christian resources.”

Those with discernment and know Scripture knew the truth of this admission: publishers are in it solely for the money, otherwise they wouldn't worry about widening the fan base and appealing to the lowest common denominator. They ought to be ashamed.

2Co 2:17 For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

Wednesday, December 03, 2008

National Association of Evangelicals VP Says Christians Voting Pro-Abortion/Pro-Homosexual Is OK

Slice of Laodicea has a short article on "Christians" voting pro-abortion/pro-homosexual rights politicians, which says in part:

"Richard Cizik, VP for Governmental Affairs at the National Association of Evangelicals, appeared on the Fresh Air program on National Public Radio on Tuesday. When asked who he voted for in the election, Cizik announced he had voted for Barack Obama in the Virginia primary, and said that the vote should give some indication of how he voted in the general election. He went further and said that evangelicals could vote for a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage politician even though they disagreed on those issues."

McCain, however, was hardly an improvement: he is pro-abortion in cases of rape or incest and is also pro-embryonic stell cell research.

Again I will ask my question: what makes a person a Christian or a Conservative--because they say they are or because their actions prove it?

What good is the label if one doesn't adhere to the principles?

Principles are not notions of convenience to be held when things are good and left in the dust when things are more difficult. The point of Truth, of biblical doctrine, of principles, is to anchor us IN truth and to steer us to make the right and biblical decisions when we're in the middle of a difficult situation that would honor Christ Jesus.

Truth trumps all things, but more and more "evangelicals" wouldn't seem to know Truth if He stood before them even now. What a corrupt bunch of people wander this land under HIS name yet deny HIM and HIS Word. The leaders will be held particularly responsible. And you know if the leaders are this liberal, most of the people are too.

2Ti 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.
2Ti 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Ti 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
2Ti 3:6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions,
2Ti 3:7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Tuesday, December 02, 2008

The Downgrade Of Academia

The Down Grade SECOND ARTICLE April 1887 Sword and Trowel

By Robert Shindler

Dr. Joseph Priestley, the great champion of Socinianism among Nonconformists He says:—"In my time the academy was in a state peculiarly favorable to the serious pursuit of truth, as the students were about equally divided upon every question of much importance, such as liberty, necessity, the sleep of the soul, and all the articles of theological orthodoxy and heresy; in consequence of which, all these topics were the subject of continual discussion. Our tutors, also, were of different opinions, Dr. Ashworth taking the orthodox side of every question, and Mr. Clark, the sub-tutor, that of heresy, though always with the greatest modesty. Both of our tutors being young, at least as tutors, and some of the senior students excelling more than they could pretend to do in several branches of study, they indulged us in the greatest freedoms. The general plan of our studies, which may be seen in Dr. Doddridge's published lectures, was exceedingly favorable to free enquiry, as we were referred to authors on both sides of every question. In this situation I saw reason to embrace what is generally called the heterodox side of every question."

But in too many cases sceptical daring seems to have taken the place of evangelical zeal, and the husks of theological speculations are preferred to the wholesome bread of gospel truth. With some the endeavor seems to be not how steadily and faithfully they can walk in the truth, but how far they can get from it. To them divine truth is like a lion or a tiger, and they give it "a wide berth." Our counsel is—Do not go too near the precipice; you may slip or fall over. Keep where the ground is firm; do not venture on the rotten ice.

The first step astray is a want of adequate faith in the divine inspiration of the sacred Scriptures. All the while a man bows to the authority of God's Word, he will not entertain any sentiment contrary to its teaching. "To the law and to the testimony," is his appeal concerning every doctrine. He esteems that holy Book, concerning all things, to be right, and therefore he hates every false way. But let a man question, or entertain low views of the inspiration and authority of the Bible, and he is without chart to guide him, and without anchor to hold him.

But when, on the other hand, reason has been exalted above revelation, and made the exponent of revelation, all kinds of errors and mischiefs have been the result...Human reason is exalted to a higher office, and what is not comprehensible by its grasp, is not readily received. The mind of the Socinian feels still less veneration for the Word of God; for, according to his sentiments, some parts of it are not inspired; mistakes occur in the reasoning of the apostles; not a few passages are unauthentic, and what remains is interpreted with a latitude as to the expressions and language of Scripture, which would not be tolerated in expounding the sense of any other writer." ("History of Dissenters," by Bogue and Bennet.)

They run in 'the course of this world,' follow every fashionable folly, and family and personal godliness seems in general to be lost among them. There is scarcely any appearance of life and zeal in the cause of religion, which demands and deserves the greatest.

Presbyterian Church Offers Self As Islamic Prayer Center

Faith Presbyterian in Franklin doubles as Islamic prayer center

"Franklin - Each Sunday, children gather in the fellowship hall at Faith Presbyterian Church to ponder the lessons of Christianity, among them, "Love your neighbor as yourself."Now the church is setting a real-life example for the kids, by opening its Sunday school space to its Muslim neighbors for two of their five daily prayers.

Faith Presbyterian becomes the third satellite prayer center for area Muslims who wish to pray communally but may not be able to get across town to one of the four area mosques.

The other prayer sites are at Waukesha Memorial Hospital and the Muslim Student Center on Milwaukee's east side.The prayers, which contain verses from the Qur'an and are said in Arabic, can be spoken anywhere - at home, outside, at the airport, said Islamic Center Executive Director Isa Sadlon.

But many Muslims prefer to pray with others, and five daily trips to the mosque can be burdensome. The prayer centers, he said, allow them to meet their obligations closer to home or work.

Faith Presbyterian isn't the first church to open its doors to Milwaukee-area Muslims. Before the Islamic Center purchased its building in 1982, it conducted its Friday congregational prayers in the basement of Kenwood United Methodist Church near the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, said Islamic Society of Milwaukee President Othman Atta."

This isn't a shock. If people accept the Roman Catholic Church as valid, they will accept other religions as valid also. They reject Scripture that says no woman is to be a leader over men in church or marriage. They reject 2Cor 6:14-17 regarding having nothing in common with unbelievers. They reject the Master and His commands. A rebellious, religious people doesn’t fool God.

What is surprising is the laziness of the "Muslims"---they want the legalistic nature of their religion without the work. That whole religion is nothing but error and legalism, but they worry about the mere “burden” of going to their mosque? I suppose these westernized Muslims won’t go to Mecca either because that’s too burdensome, even if their religion says they should.

I'll give the Muslims credit though: this is the way to infiltrate our country. Get stupid "Christians" to accept the notion of accepting Islam, have them accept Allah as God, get them to turn their church over to them...and then take full control.

And it will happen.