Monday, August 23, 2010

The Atonement Piper, MacArthur, Scripture

John Piper's view of the atonement is not biblical and shows he's not holding to the doctrines of Grace as he claims. The term is Amyraldianism, aka Hypothetical Universalism.

John Piper's view rings similar to Amyraldianism--he says Jesus did in fact die for all in some way, just not in the "same way" as for the elect. He is not very clear nor does he correctly exegete the passages to make his point (as you will see in several articles I've quoted and linked to). In fact he sounds quite Post-Modern to me . Here are examples:

If you say that he died for every human being in the same way

For if Christ died for all men in the same way

In other words if you believe that Christ died for all men in the same way

In order to say that Christ died for all men in the same way


"We do not deny that all men are the intended beneficiaries of the cross in some sense. 1 Timothy 4:10 says that Christ is "the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." What we deny is that all men are intended as the beneficiaries of the death of Christ in the same way. All of God's mercy toward unbelievers -- from the rising sun (Matthew 5:45) to the worldwide preaching of the gospel (John 3:16) -- is made possible because of the cross."

"Whence does this mercy flow to sinners? How is God just to withhold judgment from sinners who deserve to be immediately cast into hell? The answer is that Christ's death so clearly demonstrates God's just abhorrence of sin that he is free to treat the world with mercy without compromising his righteousness. In this sense Christ is the savior of all men."

"But he is especially the Savior of those who believe. He did not die for all men in the same sense. The intention of the death of Christ for the children of God was that it purchase far more than the rising sun and the opportunity to be saved. The death of Christ actually saves from ALL evil those for whom Christ died "especially.""

"Therefore if Christ is the propitiation for all the sins of every individual in the world, they cannot be punished, and must be saved. But John does not believe in such universalism (John 5:29). Therefore it is very unlikely that 1 John 2:2 teaches that Jesus is the propitiation of every person in the world."

More of the "Jesus died for everyone but not in the same way" argumentation:

There are lots of reasons why this answer (that Jesus tasted death for everyone) is a sign of spiritual health. One of the most obvious reasons is right here in our text, Hebrews 2:9:

But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

The answer that 95% of evangelicals would give is a healthy sign of desire to say what the Bible says.

But to say what the Bible says and to mean what the Bible means are not necessarily the same thing. Which is why I said that there is something unhealthy about answering the question "For whom did Jesus taste death?" by simply saying "everybody." What's unhealthy about it is not, first, that it's wrong. It might not be wrong. It depends on what you mean by saying that. What's unhealthy is that it stops short of asking what Jesus really accomplished when he died. It assumes that we all know what he accomplished and that this he accomplished for everybody in the same way. That is not healthy, because it is not true. My guess is that most of those 95% who say Jesus died for everybody would have a hard time explaining just what it is that the death of Jesus really, actually accomplished for everybody—especially what it accomplished for those who refuse to believe and go to hell.

The death of Jesus is for the bride of Christ in a different way than it is for those who perish. Here's the problem with saying Christ died for all the same way he died for his bride...

So, we go back to the problem: in what sense did Christ taste death for their sins? If they are still guilty for their sins and still suffer punishment for their sins, what happened on the cross for their sins? Perhaps someone would use an analogy. You might say, Christ purchased their ticket to heaven, and offered it to them freely, but they refused to take it, and that is why they went to hell. And you would be partly right: Christ does offer his forgiveness freely to all, and any who receives it as the treasure it is will be saved by the death of Jesus.
I don't think that the Bible commands us or, in fact, lets us say that Christ died for everybody in the same way. And the context of Hebrews 2:9 is a good place to show that the death of Christ had a special design or aim for God's chosen people that it did not have for others.


End quote.

In contrast see MacArthur on Heb. 2:9 here.

And more of the same thinking here:

"My aim here is to show from Scripture that the simultaneous existence of God's will for "all persons to be saved" (1 Tim. 2:4) and his will to elect unconditionally those who will actually be saved is not a sign of divine schizophrenia or exegetical confusion. A corresponding aim is to show that unconditional election therefore does not contradict biblical expressions of God's compassion for all people, and does not nullify sincere offers of salvation to everyone who is lost among all the peoples of the world.

To avoid all misconceptions it should be made clear at the outset that the fact that God wishes or wills that all people should be saved does not necessarily imply that all will respond to the gospel and be saved. We must certainly distinguish between what God would like to see happen and what he actually does will to happen, and both of these things can be spoken of as God's will."


However clearly Scripture says Jesus died for ONLY the elect, therefore His atonement is totally efficacious and is not wasted in any way, because He accomplished all that the Father had intended (John 4:34; 5:36;John 17:4; Luke 18:31). John 17 stands out as a glaring example that Jesus came for a particular people, the elect. Other examples:

Eph 1:11 In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Eph 1:4 even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will,

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd LAYS DOWN HIS LIFE FOR THE SHEEP.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I LAY DOWN MY LIFE FOR THE SHEEP. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be ONE FLOCK, one shepherd.

Heb 13:20 Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of THE SHEEP, by the THE BLOOD OF THE ETERNAL COVENANT,


Act 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for THE CHURCH OF GOD, WHICH HE OBTAINED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH and GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER,

John MacArthur "The Atonement: Real or Potential?":


I also suggest the sermon "Who Chose Whom?"

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